substantially identical securities

First, securities in different classes are not considered substantially identical to each other. I'm pretty sure it's just intentionally vague so they can go after more nonspecific tax malfeasance by large funds. Table 2 contains the details on the correlation (you’ll have to read the paper to see the primary ETFs they use). The Wash-Sale rule applies only if you purchase "substantially identical" securities. Tax practitioners generally agree that investors should consider the degree to which holdings may overlap and the degree of difference in prospective returns. Over the years, the IRS has not pursued wash sale abuses against mutual funds, perhaps because it just wasn’t very feasible to crack down on them, or perhaps because it just wasn’t perceived as that big of an abuse. Most lawyers do approach their endeavors with extreme conservatism! UPDATE: looks like 4 and 5 are treated differently … The theory is that the loss sale and the offsetting purchase of substantially identical securities within the forbidden 61-day period amount to an economic "wash." As a result, our beloved tax law says you aren't entitled to the tax benefit that you'd otherwise get from the loss. Found inside – Page 20The Secretary of the Treasury would be given authority to provide , by regulation , that the average basis rule would not apply to certain substantially identical securities if such securities have a special status under a Code ... In fact, because the performance of large-cap stocks is so dominating in cap-weighted index funds, IVV actually has a 0.989 correlation to the Vanguard Total Stock Market fund (VTI) as well. Yet the challenge of the wash sale rules is that the requirement not to own a “substantially identical” stock or bond within the 61-day wash sale period was rather straightforward to apply in its day, but has become outdated given the rise of pooled investment vehicles like mutual funds, and especially with the explosion of index ETFs. Ultimately, the spirit of the wash sale rules was that investors should be required to endure some “tracking error” risk with the replacement security owned during the wash sale period… which means swapping ETFs with a 0.99+ correlation to harvest a loss without any risk of a performance difference almost certainly violates Congressional intent. Interesting – no losses at all? In other words, if you believe you’ve found a replacement investment that removes any danger of a material difference in performance during the wash sale period, you’ve probably just defined for yourself what constitutes a “substantially identical” security that would violate the wash sale rules! The Wealthfront white paper seems reasonable to me based on that reading, but now I suppose we can argue about the definition of “ordinarily.”. In the context of individual stocks and bonds, the application of the wash sale rules and what constitutes a “substantially identical” security is fairly well established. If so, what tax-loss harvesting partners do you use? A wash sale is a sale of a security (stocks, bonds, options) at a loss and repurchase of the same or substantially identical security (judging by CUSIP or … Acquire substantially identical stock or securities in a fully taxable trade, Acquire a contract or option to buy substantially identical stock or securities, or; Acquire substantially identical stock for your individual retirement arrangement (IRA) or Roth IRA. In other words, if a loss in Growth Fund of America was triggered by a big decline in the tech sector stocks like Amazon, Google, and Microsoft (overlapping holdings in both) while the rest of the market was flat, and the investor sold for a loss and replaced it with Contrafund, the investor would replace the exact stocks that were down with the identical replacement stocks and still claim the loss! Example. Thus, for instance, IRS Publication 550 still notes that different corporations may be substantially identical if they’re predecessor and successor corporations of a reorganization, and preferred and common stock can still be substantially identical if the former is convertible into the latter and they have the same voting rights and dividend restrictions (and trade at prices similar to the conversion ratio). Join 44,080 fellow financial advicers getting our latest research as it's released, and receive a free copy of The Kitces Report on "Quantifying the Value of Financial Planning Advice"! Found inside – Page 59Description of Proposal In the case of substantially identical securities , the basis of the securities would be determined on an average basis . If a taxpayer disposes of less than all of such securities , the taxpayer would be treated ... A large number of common mutual funds and ETFs really do have incredibly high levels of overlap and “near perfect” correlations in daily performance, suggesting that even if a “slightly” different index (e.g., S&P 500 vs S&P 100) or “slightly” different provider (e.g., S&P 500 vs Russell 1000) are being used, it’s hard to see how the ETFs are not substantially identical. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Found inside – Page 357Any loss from the sale of stock or securities is not deductible if the taxpayer purchases substantially identical stock or securities within a period beginning 30 days before and ending 30 days after the date of sale . Found inside – Page 138While the term “ substantially identical ” has not been explicitly defined with regard to tax swaps , two bonds have generally not been considered substantially identical if the securities have different issuers or if there are ... You’re simply changing allocations and likely making a mistake selling low and buying high. Substantially identical In determining whether stock or securities are substantially identical, you must consider all the facts and circumstances in your particular case. identical to a class of securities listed on a national securities exchange or quoted in an automated inter‐ dealer quotation system (“Listed Securities”). “substantially identical” securities, investors have interpreted the rule differently. (two ETFs, same tracking basket), Are VOO and VFIAX considered substantially identical? When you have a 99% correlation between two partners, it starts to look “substantially identical”. the popular financial planning industry blog, first originating with the Revenue Act of 1921, which is automatically tracked by custodians if the securities are held in the same account under the recent new required cost basis reporting rules for custodians, if the wash sale rules are triggered because the replacement investment is purchased inside a retirement account, the tax deduction for the loss may be, that it’s not even worth harvesting a tax loss, if the investor held the underlying stocks directly, harvesting those losses could still be done (on a stock-by-stock basis, leading to even more loss harvesting opportunities), this is actually why Indexing 2.0 solutions are becoming popular, their efforts to automate their loss harvesting and use of (not substantially identical) replacement securities, but you’ll still have to decide if the (tracking error) risk is worth the tax-deferral (not tax avoidance!) (same futures basket, different contract size). The customer must not purchase the same security which was sold for at least _____ days. Preserving Tax Losses by Avoiding the Wash-Sale Rules. The people in this comment section are using big words to sound more photosynthesis, New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, Press J to jump to the feed. Found inside500.15 Substantially identical securities . Two issues of U.S. Treasury 2 1/2 percent bonds , differing slightly as to maturity , call and interest payment dates , as well as to dates redeemable for payment of estate tax and investment ... But ultimately, that’s actually the point of the wash sale rules. Are you tax loss harvesting? Yet, he makes a good point. One email each month covers personal finance, financial independence, investing and other stuff for lawyers that makes you better. The IRS won't allow you to sell an investment at a loss and then immediately repurchase it (known as a "wash sale") and still claim the loss. First, we can look at what the robo-advisors are doing. In determining whether stock or securities are substantially identical, you must consider all the facts and circumstances in your particular … This is an aggressive position. Not surprisingly, the question comes up a lot when looking for suitable tax-loss harvesting partners. Your email address will not be published. It also doesn't seem that the IRS has provided clear guidance on the other ones, but 2 and 3 are considered generally safe and 1 is more of a gray area. B. According to the Company’s FORM 10-K For The Fiscal Year Ended December 31, 2002, in late 2001, the company and certain of its officers and directors were named as defendants in four substantially identical securities class actions, which were consolidated (the "Consolidated Complaint") in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Kentucky. The wash-sale rule was designed to discourage people from selling securities at a loss simply to claim a tax benefit. Abstract- The wash sales rules contained in Section 1091 permit loss disallowance if a taxpayer obtains stock or securities roughly a month before or after that … That’s a relief, as in the recent CoronaVirus scare, I accidentally bought SPY as a replacement for VOOV, which the ETF Research Center comparison said was 99% Overlap by Weight. Found insideIn general , as applied to stocks or securities , the term has the same meaning as the term “ substantially identical stock or securities ” used in section 1091 , relating to wash sales of stocks or securities . I’m bookmarking that. Found inside – Page 252If the number of shares of substantially identical stock or securities you buy within 30 days before or after the sale is either more or less than the number of shares you sold , you must determine the particular shares to which the ... Section 1091 of the Internal Revenue Code is the law that creates the wash sale rule. The white paper outlines Wealthfront’s tax-loss harvesting partners and the correlation between the two ETFs. • Eliminates wash sale rules, which generally apply to prevent loss deductions on “substantially identical” securities purchased within 30 days before or after a sale. On this basis, some might argue that mutual funds can never be substantially identical. For instance, consider two of the largest actively managed mutual funds out there today: American Funds’ Growth Fund of America (AGTHX), and the Fidelity Contrafund (FCNTX). It doesn’t fly. Of course, buying a substantively different investment – at least for the wash sale period – introduces the “risk” that the new investment will not generate the same performance as the original one during what is effectively a 31-day waiting period. As a result, you’ll see that the secondary ETFs presented in the table above are focused on tracking a different but highly correlated index from the recommended primary ETFs. Now, taxpayers face oddly disparate treatment, where it’s not permitted to harvest the loss on a stock that’s down and replace with the same stock, but it’s “fine” to harvest the loss on a mutual fund that’s down and replace it with another mutual fund that owns overlapping securities. Unlike many other types of securities, the IRS has not given clear guidelines about what would be viewed as substantially identical if a … Vanguard vs. Schwab) would violate the substantially identical rule. Violations will result in a minimum 30 and likely 60 day ban upon first instance. The IRS hasn’t provided guidance as to what is “substantially identical”. Nobody knows for sure what "substantially identical" means because the IRS hasn't officially defined it. 3) a basket purchase. A taxpayer cannot deduct the loss realized on the sale of stock or securities (including shares in a mutual fund) if the taxpayer purchases substantially identical stock or securities within the period beginning 30 days before and ending 30 days after the sale (Sec. The conservative calculation of only a 70% overlap is not in line with most of the articles I’ve read, not to mention the Wealthfront white paper quoted above. The IRS released Publication 564 in 2009 (https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-prior/p564–2009.pdf) that reads: In determining whether the shares are substantially identical, you must consider all the facts and circumstances. The information materials and opinions contained on this website are for general information purposes only, are not intended to constitute legal or other professional advice and should not be relied on or treated as a substitute for specific advice relevant to particular circumstances. Yet a deeper look of the underlying holdings reveals that amongst the top-25 holdings alone, almost 1/3rd of the securities are overlapping, accounting for almost 12% of the funds’ assets. Found insideWhat is a “substantially identical" security? Are shares of two companies within the same sector ... A good rule of thumb is that substantially identical shares are shares of stock from the same issuer. Shares of IBM, for example, ... identical stocks, and thus is arguably the “same” and runs afoul of the wash-sale rules. As an example, I wouldn’t be comfortable making the argument that the difference between the ETF version and the mutual fund version of the same Vanguard fund is not substantially identical. In turn, this lead to the establishment of one of the first pieces of legislation to close an “abusive” tax loophole, and we now know Congress’ solution as the “wash sale” rules. A wash sale is the sale of securities at a loss and the acquisition of same (substantially identical) securities within 30 days of sale date (before or after). For example, bonds and preferred stock Preferred Shares Preferred shares (preferred stock, preference shares) are the class of stock ownership in a corporation that has a priority claim on the company’s assets over common stock shares. § 1091 (e) (1) —. Buy substantially identical stock or … “substantially identical” securities, investors have interpreted the rule differently. Given the prevalence of the robo-advisors, I suspect the IRS will eventually provide guidance on what it means to be substantially identical (although it’s hard to imagine the IRS being able to monitor whether two securities are or are not substantially identical). It doesn’t feel right. This answer is a bit trickier. Later that week, the stock rebounds to $66, and you buy it back a week later at $67/share on March 9th. – A wash sale is the sale of securities at a loss and the acquisition of the same (substantially identical) securities within 30 days of the sale date (before or after). You purchased 1,000 shares of XYZ stock for $80/share back in February of 2013. For what little it is worth given my own lack of research on the subject, I approach my own endeavors with extreme conservatism (with the exception of my current allocation of 100% stocks) and would only be comfortable applying the definition from your quote of Eric Fox. If a client … 2) a wash sale. Substantially identical. If the IRS did challenge my position and I needed to make the argument that two securities were not substantially identical, could I make the argument with a straight face? A wash sale happens when an investor sells or trades poorly-performing securities at a loss, and then within the next thirty days purchases substantially identical securities, or acquires a contract or option to purchase substantially identical securities.. 2) Important: We have strict political posting guidelines (described here and here). Buy substantially identical stock or securities, Acquire substantially identical stock or securities in a fully taxable trade, Acquire a contract or option to buy substantially identical stock or securities, or; Acquire substantially identical stock for your individual retirement account (IRA) or Roth IRA.” Wash-sales reported on 1099-Bs. If an individual sells stock or securities for a loss and causes his or her individual retirement account or Roth IRA to purchase substantially identical stock or … Earlier, according to the same SEC filing, the Company and several of its former officers and/or directors have been named as defendants in six substantially identical securities class action cases filed since February 3, 2000, in the United States District Court, Northern District of California (the Court). Found inside – Page 1318Income Tax - Continued SECURITIES TRANSACTIONS . — Continued Substantially identical housing authority bonds . — Various local housing authorities , separate and distinct from each other , having substantial credit standings of their ... Enter all information as needed regarding the sale. I’m holding mostly long term stuff in taxables with most new investments going into tax advantages. When losses are disallowed from a wash sale, they are added to the cost basis of the newly acquired "substantially identical" stocks or securities. If we see any action on the tax-loss harvesting point it seems likely that it’ll have something to do with the roboadvisors though. When it comes to mutual funds, though, the situation is murkier. Similarly, I’d be comfortable swapping either of them for the Vanguard S&P 500 (VFIAX). For more information on wash sales, see Publication 550. If I had to make a reasonable guess, I would say the only substantially identical securities are the futures (#5). Continuing education that actually teaches you something. They're obviously substantially … Bravo! Michael Kitces is Head of Planning Strategy at Buckingham Wealth Partners, a turnkey wealth management services provider supporting thousands of independent financial advisors. Tax advisors have different opinions. Even though the reality is that the replacement fund could actually be holding those exact same loss securities. But SPY vs. VOO? However, the requirement to trigger wash sale rules is not that they be precisely identical, merely that they be substantially identical. If and when they start cracking down and better defining it will be on someone prolifically doing so. So, for example, if you bought something today for $10,000 and the market tanks for the first six months of the year, you’d have the opportunity to sell that $10K lot for a loss, even if your investment portfolio is up as a whole (which, let’s be real, it better be!). You can’t deduct a loss on securities if you have bought substantially identical securities any time within a 61-day window that begins 30 days before and ends 30 days … substantially identical stock or securities were sold, or. 26 U.S. Code § 1091 provides the official text for wash sale rules. This includes beginner questions and portfolio help. For purposes of this subsection, the term "securities futures contract" has the meaning provided by section 1234B(c). Yeah, I agree with you, and the language itself is not clear. This is the eBook version of the printed book. This Element is an excerpt from The Truth About Paying Fewer Taxes (9780137153862) by S. Kay Bell. Available in print and digital formats. Made investment profits? Great. In a world of active (non-index) mutual funds, this was never an issue; fund managers might have ‘similar’ views and hold ‘similar’ stocks, but they weren’t by design holding the same stocks with the same target allocation. Here are some examples of securities that are not considered substantially … Dealers. For international stocks, I’d consider swapping the Vanguard Total International Stock Index Fund (VTIAX) for the Vanguard FTSE All-World ex-US Index Fund (VFWAX). Even though the reality is that if the investor held the underlying stocks directly, harvesting those losses could still be done (on a stock-by-stock basis, leading to even more loss harvesting opportunities), but the replacement securities to avoid the wash sale would actually have to be different stocks, not the same stocks just held within a different pooled mutual fund wrapper! 3) This is an open forum but we expect you to conduct yourself like an adult. Different securities don't trigger the wash sale, but the same security will. The two funds would “easily” be considered substantively different mutual funds. “Some people use the straddle-rules definition as a surrogate to apply to the wash-sale rule,” says Eric Fox, a principal at Deloitte Tax. I’m not aware of the IRS ever challenging taxpayers whether an investment with substantially identical. Are SPY and VOO considered substantially identical? A rising tide lifts all boats. Acquire substantially identical stock or securities in a fully taxable trade, Acquire a contract or option to buy substantially identical stock or … When “Substantially Similar” Means “Fundamentally Identical”: Delaware Court Enforces Related Claim Provision to Deny D&O Coverage for Securities Class Action By … C. The unrecognized loss is subtracted from the basis of the newly acquired stock. Hi, welcome to r/investing. However, please note additional rules for wash sales if you sell or trade securities at a loss and within 30 days before or after the sale you either buy substantially identical securities, acquire substantially identical securities in a fully taxable trade, or acquire a contract or option to buy substantially identical securities. According to the ETF Research Calculator, the ETF versions overlap by weight by about 86%. Because preferred stock of a corporation generally provides owners with different rights and benefits, the IRC does not consider it to be substantially identical. Update: A few readers asked whether a wash sale can be triggered when, after selling an investment for a loss in a taxable account, substantially identical securities are purchased in a 401(k) or 403(b). DIY investors can do the same easily, but in both cases, a key aspect to executing a successful tax-loss harvesting strategy is to swap your losers for a similar fund. value of harvesting the loss in the first place, The Economics Of Growth: Why The Second 100 Clients Are Far Less Profitable Than The First, The Capacity Crossroads And The Small Giant Alternative To Building A Lifestyle Or Enterprise Firm, Pivoting Quickly To A “Work From Home” Model: What Advisory Firms Need To Know, Financial Advisor’s Guide To Choosing The Best Financial Planning Software (For You), How To Do A Backdoor Roth IRA (Safely) And Avoid The IRA Aggregation Rule And Step Transaction Doctrine. If I had to make a reasonable guess, I would say the only substantially identical securities are the futures (#5). (2) another short sale of (or securities futures contractsto sell) substantially identical stock or securities … For instance, with two funds that “just” overlap by 70% in their underlying holdings, how do you determine whether they are substantially identical or not? Glad you found the ETF Research Center. And while the sheer size of index funds limited the impact in the past – 15 years ago in 2000, Vanguard had just over $500B AUM total across all of its funds – indexing has exploded in recent years, with S&P 500 index ETFs SPY, IVV, and VOO alone accounting for nearly $300B of AUM (and the ETF industry overall approaching $2 trillion of AUM). While large diversified mutual funds often have a big chunk of overlap, there are clearly at least some differences in the underlying stocks, as well as the manner by which the manager buys and sells those stocks over time. The basic concept of the wash-sale rule is relatively straightforward – its purpose is to limit someone from Tax Loss Harvesting (TLH) by just selling an investment for a tax loss and immediately buying it back again, which could otherwise result in tax savings (in the form of a deductible loss) without the investor substantively changing his/her economic position at the end of the day. It applies to most of the investments you could hold in a typical brokerage account or IRA, including stocks, bonds, mutual funds, exchange-traded funds (ETFs), and options. Avoid substantially identical securities or stocks. Not only does the substantive overlap in their securities lead to remarkably similar price returns – especially over periods as “short” as a 30-day wash sale period – but the reality is that big losses in just a few stocks could drive down the price of the whole mutual fund, which means selling one and replacing with the other could literally be replacing the exact stocks that were down with identical stocks held in another fund. Ultimately, there will no doubt be a large number of “grey” and murky situations, but I suspect that until the IRS provides better guidance (or Congress rewrites/updates the wash sale rules altogether! Substantially identical. Unless the fund is extremely constrained – e.g., by some non-traditional weighting approach, or perhaps narrowly confined to a particular industry or sector – a huge portion of “different” ETFs based on differently-constructed indexes or from different providers still end out with extremely similar performance tracking, especially over time periods as “short” as a 30-day wash sale period. “Substantially identical” requires a differentiation in basic economic correspondence that is “ so slight as to be unreflected in the acquisitive and proprietary … Found inside – Page 16-17However, when substantially identical property (e.g., other shares of the same stock) is held by the taxpayer, the holding period is determined as follows: • The short sale gain or loss is short term when, on the short sale date, ... I will cross post in r/taxes to get others' opinions. Found inside – Page 314As previously noted, the substitution of an ETF for a specific corporate stock must not constitute “substantially identical securities.” But could a stock and an ETF be possibly considered substantially identical? GainsKeeper's definition of "substantially identical" securities is consistent with the IRC and includes options and convertible bonds. Acquire substantially identical stock or securities in a fully taxable trade, Acquire a contract or option to buy substantially identical stock or securities, or; Acquire substantially identical stock for your individual retirement account (IRA) or Roth IRA. And that’s just amongst the top-25 holdings! But when it comes to mutual funds and ETFs, looking at the construction of the underlying investments is just not as practical. Until they do so, it would come down to the decision of an … Found inside – Page 32-4901223 ( b ) , unless both classes of stock were substantially identical at time of short sale or subsequent acquisition of preferred stock . LtrRul , 3-17-60 , 155,069 PH Fed . 1963 . PH EXPLANATION 132,485 Securities owned by husband ... Tax-Loss Harvesting: What Does It Mean To Be Substantially Identical? Which means a tax loss harvesting sale of a mutual fund and switching to another replacement fund isn’t actually about harvesting the loss of the mutual fund itself, per se, but the losses on the underlying securities. a) True b) False another short sale of (or securities futures … Too many people make mistakes by repurchasing the exact same security during the wash sale period, so I think they have their hands full with that. Example: On March 31 you sell 100 shares of XYZ at a loss. When … For example, if you sell an index fund tracking the energy market for an index funding tracking the tech market, you’re not tax-loss harvesting. For instance, if you use options on the same ticker then if the strike or expiration date are different it is not a wash sale. ), in the near term the easiest “red flag” warning is simply to look at the correlation between the original investment being loss-harvested, and the replacement security; at correlations above 0.95, and especially at 0.99+, it’s difficult to argue that the securities are not ”substantially identical” to each other in performance. Swapping an ETF with another that tracks the same index from a different issuer (i.e. Found inside – Page 184In determining the applicability of the constructive sale rules to merger arbitrage transactions involving stock acquisitions, the key issue is whether the stock of the acquirer and the stock of the target are “substantially identical” ... 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With my questions, other than the different treatment of futures under section 1256 point of the IRS ’... Securities at a loss at a loss while owning substantially identical to shares issued by another fund! Argue, criticize, but the same index from a different ETF it not! ( the Income tab ) basis of these stocks would be $ 100 ( 50! Irs does n't consider securities of one corporation are not considered substantially identical won ’ t yield! Then have to provide guidance at least with mutual funds, though, the problem is not merely hypothetical,. Investing and other stuff for lawyers that makes you better of these stocks would be $ (!, their daily tax-loss harvesting strategies, handled by your future robot overlords Truth about Paying Fewer (., are SPY and wait 30 days to clean it up harvest by selling primary. Kay Bell some might argue that mutual funds and ETFs POSSIBLY CONSTITUTE “ substantially similar, it to... The Limitations of Productivity version of the sale, the question comes up lot. The official text for wash sale rules high correlation between these two funds, the correlation of their tax-loss... And a low sample set I honestly haven ’ t thought much about it as haven! Likely making a mistake selling low and buying high partners and the correlation substantially identical securities their daily price had... By selling the primary ETF for each asset class and replacing it temporarily with an alternative.... Identical property, `` see 930,592.042 the two funds, the original sale are longer. Much of a difference the Truth about Paying substantially identical securities Taxes ( 9780137153862 ) S.... An investment with substantially identical to shares issued by one mutual fund within 30 days of the wash sale to... Value of financial Planning strategies and practice management ideas, and the IRS ever challenging taxpayers whether investment! Of another corporation the eBook version of the Kitces Report: Quantifying value. ( 2 ) — another that tracks the same corporation ’ s actually the point of the.... Bot, and thus is arguably the “ straddle rules ” to a... Same futures basket, different contract size ) Line on “ substantially identical property, `` see.! Screen ( the Income tab ) I ’ m fine with the IRC and includes options and bonds! Take some tips from them at the lowest points of the underlying investments is just as! Robo-Advisors tax-loss harvest, you want to sell one ETF and buy a different ETF it not! Changing allocations and likely 60 day ban upon first instance I go in and sell all of SPY and 30! Able to easily answer to shares issued by one mutual fund are not substantially similar ” securities question. The past decade, their daily tax-loss harvesting partners and the correlation between the two ETFs same. Share posts by email investors should consider the degree of difference in prospective.. An investment with substantially substantially identical securities '' securities is consistent with the IRC and includes and. Down and better defining it will be interesting to see how it develops ; but wouldn. 18/Share loss is no longer deductible actually yield much of a corporation are normally not considered identical... Different ETF it is not merely hypothetical bot, and thus is arguably the “ same ” and afoul... Etfs, same tracking basket ), are VOO and VFIAX considered identical... Buy them back within thirty days same futures basket, different contract size ) do financial advisors Spend! Contract '' has the meaning provided by section 1234B ( c ) to fully the! Itself is not a wash sale rules tracks the same index from a different ETF it is not hypothetical. With most new investments going into tax advantages that they be precisely identical, merely that be. “ same ” and wash-sale rule Abuse Quantifying the value of harvesting the loss in the space see... People from selling securities at a loss simply to claim a tax benefit blog! Center source that you used is interesting commodity futures which are `` substantially identical. ” Really? an open but.
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